Nu of Ma ([info]manu86) wrote,
  • Mood: geeky

Dialects and Accents in HP

Dialect is a tricky thing in fanfiction, and it is not rare to come accross those who shy away from writing specific characters because of the way they speak*. Sometimes, when they do try to write said characters, they mess their speech patterns up so horribly that one (i.e., me) cannot read their stories without getting an involutary twitch in one's (i.e., my) left eye. Which is a pity, as many of these fics would be very decent otherwise.

Now. I love Viktor. I love Fleur. I adore Stan Shunpike. I think Hagrid is a good fellow. I... respect Madame Maxime. The elves have been steadily growing on me. And these extremely interesting characters are quite often tragically neglected in fanfiction because of their accents/dialects**! Well, not so much the elves, no, although I've never seen a story with an elf as its main character. Oh, wait, I wrote one for [info]snoopypez's Trousers Challenge... but that, erm, does not count.

Ahem. Anyway, as I was saying, whenever one of the above characters do appear in fanfiction, they run a very, VERY high risk of having their lovely speech patterns butchered. As I don't really expect anyone to be as anal-retentive over this as I am, I have decided to give you all a shortcut to understanding how J.K. makes these characters speak with a few simple steps.

Therefore, I now present you:

Dialects and Accents in the Harry Potter Series
A Comprehensive Guide


Rubeus Hagrid


Hagrid is not too hard. :) We've seen a lot of him, after all. I believe you will be safe with the Basic Rules of Rubeus' Grammar, which are as follows:

  • Any T or G or D that come after an N are completely unnecessary. That way, we have:
    haven't = haven'
    anything = anythin'
    nothing = nuthin'
    and = an'
    And so on, so forth.
    NOTE: That is unless the omittance causes you to misunderstand his meaning, like in can x can'. In such a case, JK will probably go with can't.


  • In most one-syllable words, Os (and, similarly, OUs) become Es. That way, we have:
    to = ter
    you = yeh
    your = yer
    for = fer
    And so on, so forth.


  • OFs, 'VEs and etc. become A, as in:
    must've = musta
    out of = outta
    And so on, so forth.</i>
    NOTE: The same does not hold for triple contractions, as in he'd've or wouldn't've. Hagrid says them exactly this way, with 'VEs and Ts and everything. Erm, at least in P/SS.

  • In long words, sometimes he'll "swallow" some vowels, uncluding, but not limited to the E between T and R:
    mystery = myst'ry
    interested = int'rested
    every = ev'ry
    suppose = s'pose
    So on, so forth...

  • Other random peculiarities:
    been = bin
    of course = 'course
    my = me
    them = 'em
    of = o'
    about = abou'
    just = jus'
    more than = more'n
    nothing = nuthin'
    something = summat
    And I've obviously not caught them all, but I was actually kidding when I called this a comprehensive guide, you know.

Some examples to give you a feel of it: (Emphasis mine - well, obviously)

"Nah - can't spell it. All right - Voldemort." Hagrid shuddered. "Don' make me say it again. Anyway, this - this wizard, about twenty years ago now, started lookin' fer followers. Got 'em, too - some were afraid, some just wanted a bit o' his power, 'cause he was gettin' himself power, all right. Dark days, Harry. Didn't know who ter trust, didn't dare get friendly with strange wizards or witches... terrible things happened. He was takin' over. 'Course, some stood up to him - an' he killed them. Horribly. (...)" (SS - pages 54/55, American Edition)

Do compare this to:

"We chanced a bit o' magic after that an' it wasn' a bad journey. Ran inter a couple o' mad trolls on the Polish border an' I had a sligh' disagreement with a vampire in a pub in Minsk, bu' apart from tha' couldn't'a bin smoother.
"An' then we reached the place, an' we started trekkin' up through the mountains, lookin' fer signs of 'em...
"We had ter lay off the magic once we got near 'em. Partly 'cause they don' like wizards an' we didn' want ter put their backs up too soon, an' partly 'cause Dumbledore had warned us You-Know-Who was bound ter be after the giants an' all. Said it was odds on he'd sent a messenger off ter them already. Told us ter be very careful of drawin' attention ter ourselves as we got nearer in case there was Death Eaters around." (OotP - page 377, UK Edition)


Considerations: As you can see, in later books (I'm not sure about CoS, I can't seem to find my copy in English) he started using more contractions than he seems to use in P/SS, like abou', jus', didn' and etc, etc. It seems like JK thought he wasn't incomprehensible enough the first time around. ;P

It is worth noting: Once in a while Hagrid says one or another of these words correctly. He's inconstant like that. So you don't have to be TOO paranoid that you let something slip. :P But be aware that it only happens once in a purple moon with yellow dots.

'But what if I'd given Harry to him, eh?(...)' ( PoA - page 224, UK Edition.)

Exclamations and Mannerisms: Hagrid uses a fine, colorful myriad of different exclamations, including, but not limited to "Merlin's beard!", "Galloping Gorgons!", "Gulping Gargoyles!" and a hole lotta "Blimey"s. He also seems to like to use eh a lot.

Golden Rule: When in doubt, write in regular English.



Stan Shunpike


Now, in contrast with Hagrid's, Stan's speaking style is HARD AS ALL HELL to pick up. At least to me. If you don't think so, congratulations, and let me read your fic. :)

Good news is, he appears much less, and therefore his section can REALLY (almost) be called comprehensive. Anyway, Grammar's Finest Points According to Stan:

  • He knows not of the sound of H:
    he = 'e
    Hogwarts = 'Ogwarts
    Harry = 'Arry
    hand = 'and
    who = 'oo
    And so on, so forth.


  • Any T or G or D that come after an N are completely unnecessary:
    doing = doin'
    don't = don'
    going = goin'
    and = an'
    Well, you catch my drift.


  • (interesting to note that an' = and, and 'and = hand :P)

  • When TH is supposed to sound somewhat like an F, it shall become an F:
    nothing = nuffink
    toothbrush = toofbrush
    thing = fing
    anything = anifink
    thirteen = firteen
    ... yeah, you got it.


  • If an often-used construction can be shortened to something that sounds very silly, it will be:
    what are you = 'Choo
    didn't you = dincha
    isn't it = inee
    what is = woss
    didn't it = dinnit
    did you = didja


  • Why say it all when you can omit extra wording?
    I have seen = I seen
    are you out of = you outta
    as long as = long's
    where have you been = where you been
    And etc.


  • Other random peculiarities:
    with = wiv
    them = 'em
    just = jus'
    because = 'cos
    didn't = di'n't
    was = woz


  • He makes most of the well-known basic mistakes of grammar, like:
    double (sometimes triple!) negatives
    "they was" (well, he does it once)
    You know... the usual.

Some examples to give you a feel of it: (Emphasis mine - well, obviously)

"Yeah," said Stan, still rubbing his chest. "Yeah, that's right. Very close to You-Know-'Oo, they say... anyway, when little 'Arry Potter put paid to You-Know-'Oo, all of You-Know-'Oo's supporters was tracked down, wasn't they, Ern? Most of 'em knew it was all over, wiv You-Know-'Oo gone, and they came quiet. But not Sirius Black. I 'eard he thought 'e'd be second-in-command once You-Know-'Oo 'ad taken over.

"Anyway, they cornered Black in the middle of a street full of Muggles an' Black took out 'is wand and 'e blasted 'alf the street apart, an' a wizard got it, an' so did a dozen Muggles what got in the way. 'Orrible, eh? An' you know what Black did then?" Stan continued in a dramatic whisper.

"What?" said Harry.

"Laughed," said Stan. "Jus' stood there and laughed. An' when reinforcements from the Ministry of Magic got there, 'e went wiv 'em quiet as anifink, still laughing 'is 'ead off. 'Cos 'e's mad, inee, Ern? Inee mad?" (PoA - pages 47/48, UK Edition)

And...

"Just outside Birminghan," said Stan happily, answering Harry's unasked question as Ron struggled up from the floor. "You keepin' well, then, 'Arry? I seen your name in the paper loads over the summer, but it weren't never nuffink very nice. I said to Ern, I said, 'e didn't seem like a nutter when we met 'im, just goes to show, dunnit?" (OotP - page 464, UK Edition)


Considerations: He speaks perfectly when he's being professional:

"Welcome to the Knight Bus, emergency transportation for the stranded witch or wizard. Just stick out your wand hand, step on board and we can take you anywhere you want to go. My name is Stan Shunpike, and I will be your conductor this eve-" (PoA - pages 41/42, UK Edition)

It is worth noting: He likes to... reinforce what he says a lot, as in , "Never notice nuffink, they don'.", and he's always ending his statement with questions like, "dincha?", "inne?", and, really, too many examples to count. The questions are, most of the time, directed at Ernie, the Knight Bus driver, who Stan, by the way, only calls Ern.

Exclamations and Mannerisms: He only ever uses "Blimey" as an exclamation, when Harry calls Voldemort by name. He seems to use "Eh" even more frequently than Hagrid.

Golden Rule: When in doubt, write in regular English.



Madame Olympe Maxime
&
Fleur Delacour


The French accent is quite easy to do, if you keep Les Rules du Accent Français in mind. These Rules would be:

  • They know not of the sound of H, so:
    Hogwarts = 'Ogwarts
    he = 'e
    Harry = 'Arry
    who = 'oo
    Do I really need to say "so on, so forth"?


  • TH becomes Z when followed by a vowel:
    this = zis
    that = zat
    thing = zing
    the = ze
    Yeah, etc.
    NOTE: Followed by a VOWEL. "Throw", "through", "throne"... they'll be all written exactly like that.


  • In the words where the letter I sounds somewhat like EE, it's sometimes substituted for it:
    simply = seemply
    Christmas = Chreestmas
    mister = meester
    And etc.
    NOTE: This particular rule is VERY inconstant. Both Olympe and Fleur are FREQUENTLY saying their Is correctly. It could be explained by it being a sound they've already learned and that is sometimes "kidnapped" by ze accent, when zey get deestracted. :P


  • OTHER = UZZER
    another = anuzzer
    grandmother = grandmuzzer
    each other = each uzzer
    Got it?


  • Once in a while, they'll exchange ER/ERE for AIR:
    there = zair (but Fleur says zere, too)
    very = vairy
    entered = entaired
    never = nevair
    Yadda, yadda.
    NOTE: Used VERY infrequently, too.

  • Uzzer random peculiarities:
    Madame Maxime calls Dumbledore Dumbly-Dorr, and although Fleur never says his name, it's reasonable to suppose that so does she.

Some examples to give you a feel of it: (Emphasis mine - well, obviously)

"'Ow dare you!" shrieked Madame Maxime. Her voice exploded. (...). "I 'ave nevair been more insulted in my life! 'Alf-giant? Moi? I 'ave - I 'ave big bones!" (GoF - pages 428/429, American Edition)

"Zis is nothing," she [Fleur] said dismissively, looking around at the sparkling walls of the Great Hall. "At ze Palace of Beauxbatons, we 'ave ice sculptures all around ze dining chamber at Chreestmas. Zey do not melt, of course... zey are like 'uge statues of diamond, glittering around ze place. And ze food is seemply suberb. And we 'ave choirs of wood nymphs, 'oo serenade us as we eat. We 'ave none of zis ugly armor in ze 'alls, and eef a poltergeist ever entaired into Beauxbatons, 'e would be expelled like zat." She slapped her hand onto the table impatiently. (GoF - page 418, American Edition)

Considerations: They use evident and evidently a lot, when they could say clearly, obviously and etc. I'd guess that is because of the French word évidemment, which is very commonly used. They speak with a certain... weird formality, not using contractions, and using some less used constructions once in a while. That means that they're foreigners. Keep that in mind. :) By the way, for foreigners, they have amazing fluency and never stumble over their words or seem to forget any vocabulary. So keep that in mind, too.

It is worth noting: Fleur has got a job in the UK to "eemprove 'er Eeenglish", to quote Fred and George. It is safe to assume that in stories taking place at the end of Harry's fifth year or later, her accent will have diminished a little.

Exclamations and Mannerisms: Madame Maxime slips into French in the middle of her English in two occasions: when she learns that Hogwarts has two champions ("C'est impossible") and when Hagrid says that she must be a half-giant ("'Alf-giant? Moi?"). Both times of stress. Fleur never does it, not even once, not even when she's freakling out over Gabrielle. That doesn't mean she CAN'T do it, but my job is to let you know of canon facts. :P

Golden Rule: When in doubt, write in regular English.



Viktor Krum


Viktor Krum's accent is so easy to copy that it's laughable. There is NO excuse to get him wrong, really. There isn't. There is only ONE rule in Viktor's Crummy Guide, and it is:

  • V-Fest!! (W=V)
    well = vell
    we = ve
    winter = vinter
    Sooo on.
    NOTE: Words like wrong and wrap, with silent Ws, aren't changed.


  • Ah, fine, I lied, there is one more:

  • The A, in a few (FEW!) words, are closed to an O:
    what = vot
    was = vos
    want = vont (but vant is used right after it)
    And those are, honestly, all the examples.

    This last one down here is not a rule, exatly, it's just the:

  • Other random peculiarities:
    have = haff
    Hermione = Herm-own-ninny or Hermy-own-ninny

An example to give you a feel of it: (Emphasis mine - well, obviously)

"Vell, ve have a castle also, not as big as this, nor as comfortable, I am thinking," he was telling Hermione. "Ve have just four floors, and the fires are lit only for magical purposes. But ve have grounds larger even than these- though in vinter, ve have very little daylight, so ve are not enjoying them. But in summer ve are flying every day, over the lakes and the mountains..." (GoF - page 417, American Edition)</i>

Considerations: What I said about Madame Maxime's and Fleur's lack of contractions, unusual constructions... still holds for Viktor. Because, you see, he's a foreigner too. :P And what I said about the fluency and the huge vocabulary holds, too.

It is worth noting: I'm sure he can spell "Hermione".

Exclamations and Mannerisms: He barely talks, so I wasn't really able to pick those up. Sorry!

Golden Rule: When in doubt, write in regular English.




I've debated whether to include the elves, because they don't really pronounce anything differently (unless you count Weasley/Wheezy), but I'll try to write at least a little about the structure of their dialogue...

Winky


Winky's constructions are a mess. The not-so-simple Rules of Winky's Wonky Talk are as follow:


  • Verbs are ALWAYS conjugated in the third person:
    I is
    You is
    He/She/It is
    We is
    You is
    They is
    And so on, so forth.


  • Verbs that are in the past are conjugated in the present continuous:
    when you set him free = when you is setting him free
    I have been looking after the Crouches all my life = I is looking after the Crouches all my life
    what would they say = what is they saying
    And etcetera.


  • Sometimes she refers to herself as I, and sometimes she refers to herself as Winky. She's inconstant like that.


Some examples to get you a feel of it: (Emphasis mine - well, obviously)

"House-elves is not supposed to have fun, Harry Potter," said Winky firmly, from behind her hands. "House-elves does what they is told. I is not liking heights at all, Harry Potter" - she glanced toward the edge of the box and gulped - "but my master sends me to the Top Box and I comes, sir." (GoF - pages 98/99, American edition)

"Oh you is a bad elf, Dobby!" moaned Winky, tears leaking down her face once more. "My poor Mr. Crouch, what is he doing without Winky? He is needing me, he is needing my help! I is looking after the Crouches all my life, and my mother is doing it before me, and my grandmother is doing it before her... oh what is they saying if they knew Winky was freed? Oh the shame, the shame!" (GoF - page 381, American edition)

Considerations: Have I mentioned that Winky's constructions are a mess? Basically, she uses the simple present and the present continuous. She uses the simple past very sporadically, usually in place of the past perfect or simple perfect. I'd recommend that you read chapters eight (The Quidditch Cup) and twenty-one (House-Elf Liberation Front) of GoF to get you a feel of the way she talks, because I wouldn't be trusting myself with that one. It's not easy to explain.

It is worth noting: That Winky's constructions are a mess. :P

Exclamations and Mannerisms: She uses vocatives an AWFUL lot. Sir, miss, Master Barty... As in every sentence.

Golden Rule: When in doubt, write in regular English (but in the third person!).



Dobby


Dobby is a relief, after you've tried to sort Winky out.


  • He knows aaaall about the tenses, that is, his verbs in the past are in the past, his presents are in the present and his futures in the future. Conditional clauses are great too!


  • He, unlike Winky, never uses "I" or "you". He refers to himself strictly in the third person, and to the person/people he's talking to stricly in the third person. However, he uses my and your.


  • He only conjugates his verbs in the third person:
    Dobby has
    [Person he's talking to] has
    He/She/It has
    We has
    [People he's talking to] has
    They has


Some examples to get you a feel of it: (Emphasis mine - well, obviously)

'Winky is still drinking lots, sir,' he said sadly, his enormous round green eyes, large as tennis balls, downcast. 'She still does not care for clothes, Harry Potter. Nor do the other house-elves. None of them will clean Gryffindor Tower any more, not with the hats and socks hidden everywhere, they finds them insulting, sir. Dobby does it all himself, sir, but Dobby does not mind, sir, for he always hopes to meet Harry Potter and tonight, sir, he has got his wish!' Dobby sank into a deep bow again. 'But Harry Potter does not seem happy,' Dobby went on, straightening up again and looking timidly at Harry. 'Dobby heard him muttering in his sleep. Was Harry Potter having bad dreams?' (OotP - page 342, UK Edition)

Considerations: Erm, not sure of what I have to add. We've heard a lot of Dobby, too, I actually haven't ever seen Dobby's speech pattern too badly messed up. :)

Golden Rule: When in doubt, write in regular English (but in third person!).



Kreacher


Kreacher is a delight to write! He has perfect grammar! Three cheers for Kreacher!


  • He never uses "I" or "you" either, though. He refers to himself strictly in the third person, and to the person/people he's talking to stricly in the third person. However, he uses my and your.


Some examples to get you a feel of it: (Emphasis mine - well, obviously)

"Kreacher said nothing," said the elf, with a second bow to George, adding in a clear undertone, "and there's its twin, unnatural little beasts they are."
(...)
"... and there's the Mudblood, standing there bold as brass, oh, if my mistress knew, oh, how she'd cry, and there's a new boy, Kreacher doesn't know his name. What is he doing here? Kreacher doesn't know..." (OotP - page 101, UK Edition)

Golden Rule: Write in regular English, period. :)

Phew. And that's it. Now you have no more excuses, see? :P And by the way, do keep in mind that when you are in doubt, you should write in regular English.



* I am well aware that this is not the only reason, but let me be dramatic. ;P
** Generalizations are the soul of all overreaction. Erm, I'm not sure what that means, exactly, but let's pretend it's something profound.

EDIT: Oh-my-god-I-forgot-about-Mundungus! Damn it. I'll take care of it (yawn) tomorrow.

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[info]delcj

August 14 2004, 14:43:26 UTC 7 years ago

*glomps onto your guide and huggles it tight*

thank you, Manu! i especially enjoyed Grammar's Finest Points According to Stan. this post is going right to my memories for sure.

[info]manu86

August 14 2004, 20:49:56 UTC 7 years ago

You're welcome, darling. :)

[info]wm_law2003

August 14 2004, 14:51:31 UTC 7 years ago

Good lord. Very informative, but you have waaaay too much time on your hands. LOL

[info]manu86

August 14 2004, 14:57:47 UTC 7 years ago

It's called "procrastination". >.< Oh, the things we do when we should be studying.

[info]wm_law2003

7 years ago

[info]angua9

August 14 2004, 15:35:36 UTC 7 years ago

Wow! This is not only hilarious, but spectacularly useful, too. We should put it up on the Quill.


P.S. You forgot Mundungus. ;)

[info]taintedrocky

August 14 2004, 18:02:04 UTC 7 years ago

Yes, this should definitely be in SQ's Gringotts! Great job :)

[info]manu86

7 years ago

[info]dtissagirl

August 14 2004, 16:19:02 UTC 7 years ago

My dear darling Manu,

I love you.

I also shall pimp this post because everyone needs to read it.

PS: I miss you! :)

[info]manu86

August 14 2004, 20:51:44 UTC 7 years ago

I miss you tooooo!

[info]incarnatus

August 14 2004, 16:41:42 UTC 7 years ago

Awesome. This has definitely found a new home in my memories. It was linked from someone else's journal and I thought I should check it out. I'm currently writing this really long fic and it's just getting to the parts where characters will have different accents, so this is a huge help :)

[info]manu86

August 14 2004, 20:52:55 UTC 7 years ago

I'm glad to be of service. :)

[info]snoopypez

August 14 2004, 17:38:45 UTC 7 years ago

::beams:: You did it! I hope the daily snitch knows about it so they can make you all famous. ;) Cause this is all.. good. Heh. Yay!

[info]manu86

August 14 2004, 21:02:33 UTC 7 years ago

Eww, famous! Eww. :P

Seriously, though, I just want the butchering of speech patterns to stop, or at least decrease. So maybe divulgation wouldn't be bad. Being all famous would be bad though.

(PS: I know you were just being irrevent about the fame. :P)

[info]b4zookajules

August 15 2004, 04:04:08 UTC 7 years ago

Oooh, this is wonderful. I've stuck it on my memories. :D I've not had to write any of these characters in a long while, but looking back now at when I used to write Dobby... hee. I'll keep it farrr out of your sights for fear of being throttled, put it that way. ;)

Thanks :D

xxx

[info]manu86

August 15 2004, 07:55:14 UTC 7 years ago

Hee. I wonder how many people I've scared with this post. ;P I don't throttle, don't worry. The worst I can do is to write a long-arse entry in frustrationabout the "right" way to make him speak. ;P

You're very welcome!

[info]soupytwist

August 15 2004, 07:24:20 UTC 7 years ago

You rock. :) Though I'd point out that Stan Shunpike's 'firteen' is 'thirteen', and not 'fourteen'... *ducks and runs*

[info]manu86

August 15 2004, 07:47:25 UTC 7 years ago

Oooh, now THAT makes a lot more sense! Heh. I blame my own Brazilian accent on that one - I pronounce it tirteen. See? If you ever want to include ME in your fanfics... ;P

Will change it immediately. Thank you!

[info]jetamors

August 15 2004, 11:57:26 UTC 7 years ago

Awesome! One nitpick, though -- in the Madame Maxine and Fleur section, I think "vogal" should be "vowel".

*bookmarks*

[info]manu86

August 15 2004, 12:30:34 UTC 7 years ago

You're right, of course. It's fixed now. Thanks!

[info]chaosdancer

August 15 2004, 13:43:15 UTC 7 years ago

How incredibly excellent!! I'm saving this one as well.

Now, I could be wrong - but isn't Stan's accent just garden-variety Cockney? I seem to recall that the folks in the Cockney section of The Story of English sounded just like him. (That's a great dialect resource and it includes American Appalachian dialects as well, and a section on Tangier Island off Virginia, where the people still speak in Elizabethan dialect. I'd love to set a story there!)

And I think Hagrid's dialect sounds familiar because he talks a lot like the people in the Yorkshire Dales that James Herriot wrote about. Not identical, I think, but very similar. The sections where he contrasted his own Scots accent with the Yorkshire one are priceless. :-)

[info]grenzgestalt

August 15 2004, 21:50:19 UTC 7 years ago

Wow! I absolutely love those parts in Herriot's books, esp. the training for the RAF....

There was a discussion about Hagrid, and many people seemed to think his accent was from Cornwall and not Yorkshire, though I can't offer an opinion since I'm mostly American.

And yes, I thought of Stan as extremely Cockney, though I gathered that from My Fair Lady (the London Original Cast and not the movie; though it was better than some other movies at Cockney [Mary Poppins and Dick Van Dyke], Hepburn's accent was still inconsistant, though Stanley Holloway's is excellent in all cases).

[info]biascut

7 years ago

[info]manu86

7 years ago

[info]bruno_greengras

August 15 2004, 14:50:00 UTC 7 years ago

As for Mundungus, he has a slightly modified version of Stan's dialect, wouldn't you say? An East End dialect, without going completely Cockney, like Stan.

When I started writing Dungfics I simply used the little we were given in OotP, mixed with the East End-ish accents I heard on British films and a few helpful comments from my Britpicker (I'm not a native speaker). No one complained, so I hope I wasn't too far off the mark. :/
However, after reading countless posts of complaints against writing dialects, I got very uncertain and dropped it. My Dung now speaks like the rest of the characters in HP - and I must confess that I miss his dialect.

In my experience, people with accents are treated differently in RL than those with a more posh way of speaking. Sadly, this seems to count for the HP characters as well, which might be one of the reasons we don't see many Dung or Stan fics. Too bad; they're both wonderful characters.
Sorry for ranting! ;)

[info]manu86

August 16 2004, 12:04:22 UTC 7 years ago

As for Mundungus, he has a slightly modified version of Stan's dialect, wouldn't you say?

Yep. I've actually been wondering how to write Mundungus part, because it seems like it'll be just repeating what I've said with Stan, minus a few points. Hmm.

Absolutely. I feel this sort of prejudice towards the "accented" HP characters a lot, too. It's like it's harder for people to take them seriously. I kind of understand it, given that the "phonetical" dialogue doesn't flow as seamlessly and sometimes some words end up looking just silly, but... Sigh. I like accents. It makes me sounds like a big hypocrite, because I hate my own accent and dream about getting rid of it, but well, I like everyone else's accents.

And I think Dung has a right to his accent and you should return it to him! If anyone complains, you can blame me. ;P
And oh, I definitely want to read your fic. Does he still have his accent at the beginning or did you modify earlier chapters too?

[info]manu86

7 years ago

[info]alazysod

August 15 2004, 14:53:34 UTC 7 years ago

Ah, thank you! This will come in handy a lot. :D

About Mundungus--will you edit it into this post, or a whole 'nother post? I'm currently writing a fic with him in it, and since I'm American (*ducks flying vegetables*), it's a bit hard for me to understand the dialect.

[info]manu86

August 16 2004, 12:07:20 UTC 7 years ago

You're welcome. :)

I'll edit it in this post, but I'll probably announce that I've done it in a new entry. Do you want me to e-mail you to let you know anyway?

[info]alazysod

7 years ago

[info]amanuensis1

August 15 2004, 18:35:41 UTC 7 years ago

Oh, this is fabulous. Bless you for this!

[info]grenzgestalt

August 15 2004, 21:43:44 UTC 7 years ago

Hello! Excellent post. *loffs*

It might be of some use to explain the type of dialect that each speech pattern typifies, eg Cockney for Stan, and so on.

It would be an interesting excercise to extend this to even characters who use ordinary English, just to see typical constructions and vocabulary and exclamations, though that would be quite time-consuming and most likely not worth it, since JKR doesn't vary the styles extremely, at least among the students. The staff and adults would be interesting, though.

Lovely post though!

[info]manu86

August 16 2004, 12:14:08 UTC 7 years ago

It might be of some use to explain the type of dialect that each speech pattern typifies, eg Cockney for Stan, and so on.

I agree completely. The problem is that I'm not a native English speaker (I'm Brazilian), so I'd need people to explain it to ME first... sigh.

Oooh, and I agree EVEN more. I've always felt the need of a speaking style guide, too, at least for the adults, and for the exclamations characters are most likely to use. That IS time-consuming, though, and I didn't even have time to write the one I did write. I did it only because I was procrastinating my study, and I really can't procrastinate much more or I'll never get into college... I'll be the first to rant about the need of one of those, though. :)

Thank you!

[info]manu86

7 years ago

[info]jessiac

August 16 2004, 01:42:36 UTC 7 years ago

This is a very good guide, however one point:

mystery = myst'ry
interested = int'rested
every = ev'ry
suppose = s'pose

Are all contractions that my friends at my secondary school and I use - and we mostly speak with a 'generic british middle class' accent - I think is very common in England to swallow vowels. For instance 'laboratory' is pronounced 'labor'try'. Instead of saying 'I suppose so', I'd say 'S'pose...'. Harry and friends probably use all of these, but maybe JKR wants to emphasise it with Hagrid. In fact, I read a book were it said that the reason why Americans pronounce all the vowles in words was because a method of spelling - apparently school children have to chant out the syllables of a word. It's a pity we don't do that here: a lot of my spelling problems were phonetic, and for a long time I spelt 'perhaps' as 'prehaps', because of the way that I pronounced it - 'p'raps'.

Stan's accent is estuary/cockney, I think, I know many people in my previous school 'oo spowk lahk tha', innit?

Missing off aitches and glottal stopping every 't' are all things I do when in company of friends from my primary school (I was teased constantly about my accent at school).




[info]biascut

August 16 2004, 06:52:54 UTC 7 years ago

That's actually one of the things that bugs me slightly about the way that J K Rowling transcribes Hagrid's accent. Pretty much everything is a normal part of the "generic middle class accent", but because it's a variant, everyone assumes he's "got an accent", because of course standard middle class speech corresponds to standard spelling. Except for the fact that it doesn't.

[info]jessiac

7 years ago

[info]manu86

7 years ago

[info]jessiac

7 years ago

[info]manu86

7 years ago

[info]mamalaz

August 16 2004, 02:28:51 UTC 7 years ago

HA! Darling, that was brilliant! What a fantastic guide!!! :D :D :D

Personally, I find Stan's accent the easiest, but I am a brit :D I know people who talk like that :D

Watchoo think you're doin', eh? Doncha know nuffink? :P

[info]manu86

August 16 2004, 12:26:08 UTC 7 years ago

Which is why you'll always be my brit-picker, dearie. :) ESPECIALLY if I ever write Stan. You know, YOU should write him! For me!

[info]mamalaz

7 years ago

[info]manu86

7 years ago

[info]mamalaz

7 years ago

[info]mamalaz

7 years ago

[info]mirabilelectu

August 16 2004, 07:26:26 UTC 7 years ago

This was a very useful guide, thank you. I might actually consider writing these people with their accents, instead of Just Regular English.

JKR should've taken away Victor gis h's, though. Gis accent is much better, that way.

[info]manu86

August 16 2004, 12:28:40 UTC 7 years ago

I might actually consider writing these people with their accents, instead of Just Regular English.

That would make me happy. :)

And you're welcome!

[info]therealmarajade

August 16 2004, 15:57:26 UTC 7 years ago

*Glomps Manu*

I love you, you know? Especially because you had already helped me with Fleur's accent more than once for Crossing Ways>/i>... :P

Debora

[info]manu86

August 18 2004, 11:40:37 UTC 7 years ago

Love you too, honey. And I've missed you!

Yup. Because of Charlie, I already had quite a good grasp at Fleur's and Hagrid's speech patterns. And Viktor, because of Lost Her, Have You? :) So it wasn't really THAT much work compiling this.

[info]cynicalskeptic

August 17 2004, 14:48:39 UTC 7 years ago

here from dtissagirl who I don't even know. *g* I must start writing fic. (:

[info]hobviously

August 18 2004, 03:34:03 UTC 7 years ago

All I can add here is that I tried reading the French accents aloud to myself and sounded either like the chef from The Little Mermaid or Lumiere from Beauty and the Beast.

Ah, Disney, how you have poisoned my brain.

[info]manu86

August 18 2004, 11:50:43 UTC 7 years ago

Hee, Lumière IS the epitome of french accentness (he would be even more so if that word existed). The chef from TLM was French? I remember him as being Swiss or Swedish or something of the kind! I must watch it again...

[info]hobviously

7 years ago

[info]dphearson

October 7 2004, 02:00:49 UTC 7 years ago

Oh, great fun! And what a way to keep track of one's character's in ones head!

[info]squin

November 15 2004, 07:04:11 UTC 7 years ago

Where are you??? Happy Birthday!!

[info]erised1810

December 21 2004, 16:28:28 UTC 7 years ago

i foudn this through the daily snitch.
yes, this is an old post but I can't resist one thing;
the beauxbatoners and durmstrangers had me think SO MUCH of 'allo allo' (british sit com about french cafe in wwII)
"LISTEN VERRY C AIRFULLY, I SHALL SAY ZIS ONLY ONCE."
So my own rule for writing someone with anaccent 'if I get to write them) is to listen in yoru midn when you hear them saying it'out loud' and then write that out. Its' more of aspeech patter nif you hear it in your head adn if you hear the character t alk it might come more natural after some time.
Says the one who hardly wrote any Hagrid but uses this for
most of her character narratives, since all character shave a
voice whether they have adialect or not.
This did remind me of my odd stint in beatles fandom where
people took a bit too much to the fact that they have liverpuddlian accents. so it's bin takin' 'em age ter try'n'write wit the right way ter presenthe accents.
Really there should be emphasis made on the fact that not
EVERY word needs to end in an apostrophe since not every consonant(consonant?) has to be swallowed.

[info]bringandfly

February 10 2005, 17:35:23 UTC 7 years ago

Excellente! I'm marking this one -I hope you don't mind. I would love to be able to consult it again in the future. A good reference for this Beta!

[info]wretchedmongrel

February 25 2005, 09:34:12 UTC 7 years ago

Thank you


Jeconais posted a link to this page and I cannot be more thankful. Thank you Manu!
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